Are New Cars More Reliable Than Old Cars? | Carguments

Are New Cars More Reliable Than Old Cars? | Carguments


– You’re using scare tactics. Like, you’re telling people that they can’t go out and
buy a 30-year-old car. – No, you just have to be careful. – I don’t like you. (playful music) Oh, hey. Hello, and welcome to a
new episode of Carguments. The show where we argue about
some of the most irrational and time wasting topics
in the automotive world. I’m here this week with our intern and bad take haver, Mack Hogan. We’re gonna talk about whether newer cars are more reliable than
older cars, objectively. – Yes, and more specifically, the way this came about is we were talking about used cars I should get and he was asking why I would possibly want something from 2012 as
opposed to his suggestions, which were from 1985. And I said, “‘Cause I’d like to be able to “drive places without
having to worry about it.” – There’s nothing wrong
with having a newer car. – I agree.
– But I think you’re wrong in saying that any car you get from 2012 will objectively be more reliable than a car from the 80s. – Well, I’m not saying any car. But I’m saying, taken as a fleet average, the average car built
in 2012 is at leagues more reliable than the average
nearly 40-year-old car. – Here, let’s give specifics. What are you talking about exactly? – We consider a car
from 2012 basically new because they don’t breakdown that often. Because those things maybe
will eventually break, but they take forever to break. Meanwhile, something from the 80s, all of the seals, all of the wiring, all of that kind of
stuff, it’s 33-years-old. It’s gonna start breaking down and you’re gonna have more actual mechanical problems where
the car leaves you stranded. – You’re wrong. You’re wrong, you’re completely wrong. Like think about it.
– I’m completely right always and you know that. – I’m gonna toss this at you. It totally depends. How do you know you’re not buying maybe a low-mile example from the 80s that has been taken care of, looked over, really finely tuned. – There are reliable cars that were built in the 80s and there can be, but you need a perfectly kept well thing or the guy has replaced
all of the window, motors, and all of the wires, and all those things a million times as opposed to a 2012 car, where you can buy it and a guy could have beat the shit
out of it for six years and it doesn’t matter because
the car’s basically new. – No, actually it does matter because, if you are buying a car that’s been beat to shit for the past five years, then you’re gonna be the one who’ll be crawling back to your dealership begging for shit to get replaced for probably a lot more money, depending on the car than whatever– – We’re not talking money,
we’re talking about reliability. – It is all connected, Mack Hogan. – No it’s not, it’s absolutely not. I wanna be able to go places without having to worry about the
car leaving me stranded. Now, I’ll give you that maybe
the stupid Bluetooth stuff and CarPlay will stop working after, but guess what? I can still drive the car
places ’cause mechanically, modern cars are leagues more reliable. And that’s proven by fact. Cars don’t breakdown as often, newer cars are lasting longer, warranties are getting
longer, all of that stuff. You can buy a car from 2012
that’s still under warranty if you buy it from the right brand. – These are all myths. I disagree with what you’re saying. – That’s a myth, that you
can buy a car from 2012 with a warranty?
– I wanna go back to what you’re telling me about
a car that was driven– – No– – No, you hold on. A car that was built five years ago, driven into the ground
for the past five years. You’re gonna be the one who’s gonna have to go take care of all the issues that have accumulated
over the past 30 years, compared to a car that’s possibly been barely driven, garage kept, whatever. What I’m saying is, these are
factors that really matter. Like, a car could’ve been beat to the ground over the past five years or it could’ve been taken care of really nicely for 30 years. And I also think money
is a huge part of this. You don’t think people think, “Oh, it’s not reliable, “but maybe it won’t cost me much to fix.” That a thing. – No, those are two separate things. The point I was thinking
is yes, you’re right. The absolute best car from the 80s is better than the worst car that’s been distributed from 2012. But, taken as an average, if you just pick the car that was beat to crap from the 80s
and totally neglected, that car literally probably
doesn’t exist anymore. It’s been scrapped
years ago because nobody wanted to fix all the
stuff that’s gone wrong. Yes, you’re right. Now, the electronic stuff might cost more to fix in the long-term. – I’m not talking about electronics. And actually, I wanna take a
step to my personal experience. I, for the record, have
owned, to my count, 15 cars. (air horn) Not many of them have been
new, or too new or whatever. The most recent or most new car that I owned was my 2006 BMW M5, which I failed to care for properly because of how unreliable and how much it would have cost me to pay for those issues that it had. – Luckily, Aaron has just
given me exactly what I wanted, which is that he has just
proven that you shouldn’t listen to anything he ever says
because he bought an E60 M5, the world’s least
reliable car in the world. And now is using it in an
argument about reliability. – 15 cars (air horn) to one car, Mack Hogan. 15 cars to one. I know what I’m talking about. – You’re using anecdotes,
I’m using statistics. Cars don’t breakdown as
often, warranties are longer, and things are more reliable
that they’ve ever been. – But just because the car’s been on the planet for 30 years, doesn’t mean all of the parts in that car have been on the planet for 30 years. – Right. – Things have been replaced, people have cared about
these cars and cared for them and done potentially the
work that they’ve needed. It’s not an objective thing. You shouldn’t go out telling people not to look at 30-year-old cars because everything in
them is 30-years-old. It’s not true. – I’m not saying you shouldn’t
look at 30-year-old cars. I’m saying the normal car from the 80s is going to be less
reliable in the long-term than a car that you buy
that is only 5, 6 years old. – You’re wrong. – Yes, and I’m telling
you that you are wrong because you have no valid opinion based on the fact that
you bought an E60 M5. – Thank you for tuning in today to this wonderful episode of Carguments. Go out, buy your 30-year-old project cars, don’t listen to Mack, and enjoy your life. Thank you. (playful music) – [Director] We just need one without interrupting each other.

About the Author: Michael Flood

100 Comments

  1. Cost. Proven models, and style set the stage… Honda through the 80s and 90s hold a reputation. Todays Honda's are still being proven but a chance worthy of taking… But thats Honda. Look at Ford and anything that isn't a truck is complete shit after 1985-1987… So it has more to do with engineering. Look at the BMW e30. Very well designed and many are still taking a beating like a 5 year old car should… So again, how deep are your pockets?

  2. I’m not getting in an argument, I will post this comment and never look at it again.

    That being said, as a mechanic, who fixes cars for a living… I believe that every car being built today features forms of “planned obsolescence”. This wasn’t true of cars built in the 80’s(for the sake of the cargument).

    Yellow jackets inability to express this point was difficult to listen to.

  3. New cars are only reliable because they are unused old cars have proof of reliability most cars are reliable if they have been properly maintained kind of a stupid conversation.the least reliable car I have ever owned was a e21 BMW 👏

  4. As being in the parts buiesness since 85 I will say the newer ones need less and run longer and that's being when the older cars were new also.

  5. I have seen a new-ish Dodge Ram pouring out smoke because apparently, the owner doesn't know what "low oil" means

    compared to the Plymouth Aries i saw not long ago which was still driving just fine. a bit rusty, but fine. the lady said her husband checked it every 6 months and did what we call "preventative maintenance."

  6. My 91 318is has 220k miles and is still more reliable than my 2002 grand am with 51k.. Its all about maintaining with premium parts and not neglecting the cars.. Granted the parts for the bmw are 3x's as much as the grand am parts are, but the bmw is worth 3x's the price of the grand am.. Also the paint on my bmw is holding up a million times better than my grand am which is 11 years newer.. Everyones going to have their own opinions but it all boils down to maintenance and what you value..

  7. Aaron, you’re an idiot. You’re so incredibly wrong it’s hilarious. Using complete straw man arguments whenever trying to make a point against Mack, and just giving all around bad advice.

    A car that is 30-40 years old WILL be less reliable because components on it have been against the elements for that period of time. While it’s true that tired, wheels maybe, oil filters, and other consumables in addition to whatever has broken down we’re probably replaced, the MAJORITY of the car WILL still be 30-40 years old. Suspension arms, shocks, bushings, bolts, the exhaust, and almost the entirety of the engine will have been working for that long. Metal isn’t indestructible. It’ll fatigue, rust and wear, and need replacing. And that’s your reliability down the drain.

    You have likely owned 15 cars because all the ones you bought were pieces of shit that you needed to sell on because it’d be too expensive to fix them. That’s okay! But learn to accept that.

  8. Why am I watching this? Two people who weren't alive in the 1980s talking about how reliable cars were in the 1980s.
    Some cars from the 80s were screwed together really well, some weren't. All cars from the 1980s required more maintenance than a modern car does. However, cars from the 80s weren't nearly as complex as a modern car, so if you DID have a problem, it was generally easier to troubleshoot and fix. I think cars back then may have the edge when it comes to the long-term durability of many parts…too much plastic being used in key areas in modern cars does not bode well. However plastic doesn't rust and rust was a major issue with 80s cars…modern cars are MUCH better in that regard.

    So yeah, if you find the right 80s car, and it's been maintained, and you can actually find parts for it now, you could have a car that's more reliable than some modern cars (and certainly more durable).

  9. Old cars are for people who enjoy pure driving pleasure. They are cheaper to maintain if you work on them yourself, which most of the time is the case.
    More miles doesn't mean a less reliable car, maintenance is the important part. I have a 99 Civic and I have no fear of her leaving me stranded anywhere.

  10. Get an old miata without rust. It'll be reliable and fun. Probably even more reliable then most 2012 cars. It depends on the car. AND things are not more reliable then they have ever been.

    When did Honda and Toyota make thier incredible history of reliability? In the 80s and 90s. I allways had 20 year old cars. Mostly Hondas from the 90's. Things i never replaced: engine, gearbox, clutch, distributor, ignition coil, headgasket, steering rack or pump, o2 sensors, ecus, wheel bearings or any bearings or pulleys fir that matter, any elektrical components, catalytic converters, starters, drive shafts, injectors, any wires or looms, alternators and a few other things.

    Things i have replaced: 1 radiator, 1 rear left brake caliper

    Times my car left me stranded: 0
    Times another car left me stranded: 2 (1st time a 02 vw Passat, 2nd time a 98' e36 325i)
    And all that over about 10 years.

    Also, i worked for a VW audi dealership for about 7 years. Ive considered buying one as a daily driver BEFORE i started working there. After 1 year of working there i never wasted any thought again about buying any VW audi car ever.

  11. You can keep a car running virtually forever if you really want to pay the price. But saying a well cared for old car can be just as reliable as a newer car kinda makes no sense. I always had japanese cars, well taken cared for, and the older they get the more they break, this is a stupid argument lol. And if you put the responsibility on the previous owner to give you a reliable car and done all the fixes for you, it's kind of cheating if you don't want to count all those repair in the argument.

  12. im sorry but this is bullshit an older car is much more reliable than a new car, i own an 87 e30 with the original fuel pump still on it as well as many other 30 year old parts i have not replaced most of them and to top it all off i drive the car like a lunatic in a country with shitty roads and basically no traffic laws. new cars here consistently break down with many issues and 90% of these cars dont get regular maintenance where as the old cars also dont get regular maintenance and yet rarely break down

  13. After the engine in my 97 Saturn exploded, my father let me borrow his (brand new at the time) 2015 Mercedes while I hunted for a new car. The entire time I was driving that thing I was fighting the collision avoidance system and the electronic throttle to keep a constant speed and going in a straight line. I ended up "buying" my aunts 2010 Lexus (I'll buy that for a dollar), I like it more than my father's Merc but I still miss the simplicity of my old Saturn.

  14. I don't get this video… honestly, wtf is that comparison….
    If you want to compare old cars reliability to new cars reliability, you should ask the following question:
    If you bought a car in the 80's or 90's and stick with it for 30 years would it be more reliable then if you bought a car today and stick with it for also 30 years?
    And the answer is easy, yes a 80's/90's car is incomparably more reliable, there are new cars that after a few months and without any symptoms, you just have to plug the computer to it to find several errors!!

  15. Newer cars have little indication of long term reliability. Older cars do. Therefore, one can be more sure that the car they buy is reliable when they go older instead of newer. (Honestly it depends, it can't be too new and too old)

  16. I assume they are arguing about short term reliability. After all if a car is a 2012 it's not given the same amount of time to prove or disprove than a car that's 30 or 40 years old.

  17. The 30 year old cars “that survived” were not the average of the time. That is why we see so many Mercedes, BMWs and Volvo’s around. Same with Ford pick ups and Mustangs. They were overbuilt and easy to repair. And I exclude from this group Mid 90’s European with the biodegradable wiring harnesses. But if you are not handy, or have $$$, not for you.
    Newer cars can be more reliable in the short run, but have a bleak future as far as maintenance. Electronics do go bad.

  18. no engineering developed more but older cars are much simpler thus less things to break down..but if benz, bmw, audi, porsche, fiat, peugeot start building a simple basic car like in the past, it would be much more reliable due to developed engineering and craftsmanship…80s benz are the most reliable cars in the history of cars…japanese fake reliability made by americans is coming from keeping simple old german engineering and slow speed…

  19. This is just a video version of a facebook argument where two guys are on opposing sides and at least one of the people is intractable (in this case Aaron) and starts citing incredibly specific exceptions and anecdotal evidence to try to prove his point and ends up looking kind of foolish. Ultimately his argument seems to be "old cars are just better, I have owned 15 cars, trust my experience".

    There are legit reasons some models of older cars might be good to purchase in 2018 for owners who are mechanically inclined. I don't think any of those reasons were well presented.

  20. New cars may be more reliable, but old cars are longer-lasting. Difference.

    I personally don’t think we’ll ever see million-mile E90 BMW’s, whereas we do see million-mile E30's.

    After a point, newer cars will start breaking down (inevitably)- and because they’re so technologically advanced, they’ll be nearly impossible to fix by your average Joe. To make them last longer, you’ll need a professional mechanic – and they’ll cost a ton to keep the newer car on the road.

    Older cars, however, don’t. While they may go wrong more often, you can fix them with a basic toolkit, bubblegum and duct tape. Clogged carburetor? Get some carburetor cleaner! Bad distributor? The aftermarket has you well taken care of. Want some parts? Junkyards are plentiful, Ebay and Craigslist exist and good old-fashioned elbow grease will solve all but the most severe issues.

    For example. My first car was a cherry-red 2002 Mini Cooper S.

    A middle-of-the-road car. Inherited it from my parents. They bought it pre-owned from a family friend who had taken super good care of it a few years before I got it for around $5000. Since then a $4000 supercharger needed to be replaced, the brake master cylinder has needed replacement several times, the engine burns oil like a rotary and I can’t service most of the components on that car myself. On top of all that was the basic maintenance.

    I had it for a maximum of 2 years before I’d had enough. In all, it cost me a little less than $10,000, both for the initial buy and then the subsequent maintenance and fixes ($9814 to be exact).

    My next car was a 1984 Mazda RX-7 GS. First car I bought with my own money. Paid $1575 for it initially. Since buying it; I had to replace a weeping oil metering pump, the clock, put in a new radio, fix the rear light lens, premix it and then there was the general maintenance. Most of the things (with the exception of the radio) I did myself.

    The Mazda RX-7 (remember, a car with a supposed legendary reputation for being unreliable) has cost me less than the initial buy-in of the Mini and has had less mechanical issues in the same period of ownership. According to my little booklet of expenses, the exact amount was $3880. Every filter, every fluid (except gas), every part.

  21. Let me simplify this for you;
    1. Anything OBDII or later- if it breaks, it'll either be a $100 sensor or a $1000 repair.
    2. Pre- OBDII? Be prepaired to drop $200-500 twice a year before 're-build' costs.
    Have you gotta' good credit card? Can you do driveway repairs? There's your choice…

  22. After the apocalypse, an older (1950s-60's) car that has survived in good running condition with routine maintenance would be better to have for 2 reasons: You will be able to find someone who can keep it running. You may be able to make replacement parts.

    A 1970-1980s full-size American car will have extra parts that were tacked on to reduce emissions and make it more "luxurious". Most of those can be removed to restore it to the original 1960's design.

    A 1990's-2000's car will be marginally repairable but will require manufacturer and model-specific parts that are hard to find.

    A 2010's car will be reliable until it isn't, then unrepairable as the electronics and safety systems prevent the mechanical parts from working.

  23. Aaron you just admitted defeat by telling people to go out and buy their 30 year old project cars. Key words being "project cars".
    Also I don't know if I can trust someone to tell me what's reliable if they've gone through 15 different cars.

  24. I have had new cars in the last ten yrs and they are pos….the best car I have every had a still own is a 1994 mazda protege and I'm a mechanic and spend most of my time fixing newer cars ie less then 10yr old

  25. Yes, a new well-built car is more reliable than a an old well-built car. However that doesn't equate to "more desirable". Some newer cars are chintzy crap. Some old cars were also chintzy crap but they're long gone! You will only know which new cars are bullet proof after the test of time …
    But the winners of prior decades have already emerged. So you have a better idea what you're getting when you buy an older car.

  26. Okay, most important point here: if you want to know which cars are reliable then you need data on that specific car. Brand new or even 2012 cars haven't been beaten neglected and abused the way that older cars have.

    In general old and newer cars are just as unreliable as each other because surprise! They all have manufacturing defects whether intentional or otherwise. They were all built with an accountant and an engineer battling for supremacy, cutting corners here there and everywhere.

    If I wanted a super reliable hard wearing car I'd get a reasonable crown victoria that isn't shagged out, or a toyota camry. There is a reason these cars hold their value: they have stood the test of time, parts are plentiful, and most idiots with a spanner can do servicing and repairs.

    You don't hear people saying "my fiat 500 is super reliable!" when someone asks for advice on what car to get. Reliable is a largeish displacement relatively low horsepower car with heavy components and simple electronics and mechanics.

  27. your argument was way too broad, old bmw’s are way better than new ones. e46 v. f8x., manufacturing has moved from reality; strong plain cars, to competitive technological integration. lets see how “reliable” your car is when some one hacks it and sends you 120 mph down the road

  28. Toyota Tercel 4wd and Toyota Van 4wd 80s > any new car.
    MUCH MORE RELIABLE. You will find them with 500k miles and still going strong.

  29. i have a 1997 chevy s10 and i have no issue with it. and my bro had a 1971 f100 custom ranger and it had some matinance u had to do but it was still relable

  30. This was too painful to listen to, I only made it 2 minutes. But I'm an old car guy, mines from the 80s, but it depends on what it is. There's a lot of 80s cars I wouldn't even take for free.

  31. Cars today may theoretically last longer, but are equally as disposable as junk made in the 80s. However, that said, the majority of vehicles made from 30+ years ago can easily be worked on with simple tools (minus OBD1 diagnostic). Even all that said, well maintained vehicles from 50-60 years ago are actually more reliable with simple modern upgrades (i.e. better engine cooling, disc brakes, and better wiring harnesses).

  32. Jalopnik IS literally becoming full of "petrol" heads that dont know shit about cars. The grand wagoneer trip was a joke considering the fact they couldn't figure out coolant issues on a pre 90's small block v8. Hundreds of terrible reviews on cars and trucks. Now a video on weather 80's cars in particular are more reliable than modern cars. I mean good grief might as well buy harbor freight tools watch YouTube repair videos then find obscure vehicle facts to sound legit.

  33. Just fucking fire the intern he's really fucking stupid. Like, yeah some new cars are more reliable than some cars from the 80s ,but the difference is that unless you have a crazy luxury car like an s class or something they're generally way simpler and rely much less on technology than cars of today so even if they do break down 90% of the time you're going to be able to fix it by yourself with just a basic knowledge of cars as apposed to modern cars that in some cases rely on a computer just to check the fucking oil rather than a dip stick.

  34. Well that's it. I've unsubscribed to this drivel. Jalopnik is just a waste of bandwidth with no interesting content and no actual car people.

  35. New cars are designed to fail when the warranty ends. More importantly, they are designed to fail in a manner that makes repairing either very expensive or downright impossible. This is a very important part of the design process. Making things near indestructible would be easy, but financially stupid. Tho there are a few manufacturers that did not engage this strategy until mid nineties. For some models anyway. Also, any device with fewer moving parts will generally be inherently more reliable. Likewise the end of a run in production will have most of design problems solved. That being said, the most important reliability factor for a vehicle is still its service history. As for what models to seek for reliability, ask your mechanic. No, not the twenty something who has a manufacturer logo on his clean overalls, the guy who you go to when you want your carburetor re-tuned. As for for my personal two cents, I will be extremely surprised if any modern car will be operational in thirty years.

  36. god damn cars from the 80's are reliable as fuck my 1982 bmw e28 528i is a perfect example it has 400,000+ kms never had an engine rebuild or anything. its never left me stranded its a full electronic car and everything works power windows the original computer radio all the lights and everything that is power works. as long as i look after this car there isnt any reason why it shouldnt last another 36 years. i doubt the same could be said about a 2012 car

  37. I would trust a 60's 70's Volvo P1800 more than any new car made I would like to see a modern car last over 3 million miles. The old Volvo's will outlast a modern car in a heartbeat they do have the million mile Volvo car club. Being a mechanic for over 2 decades the modern cars aren't cracked up like they used to be! Sensors always failing, plastic intakes leaking, whole drive train going out, They are using metals that crumple easier in a crash to save your life but the car is going to deteriorate allot faster because of it. I'd like to see a challenge of a new car vs old car you can't replace a part on the car and see which vehicle last the longest without replacing absolutely nothing but tires, oil and battery before something fails to the point the car won't go.

  38. Too many factors to really make a comparison. If I were driving 50 miles away from civilization off road, I'd rather have my 1982 Toyota over a new truck, there are zero computers to go wrong, its so simple it would be much easier to repair if something went wrong. Ive seen new trucks get locked out by their computers over minor things that arent fixable without hooking a computer up to them. That being said, I would guess a 2018 Tacoma would have less issues on a cross country roadtrip than my nearly 40 year old truck.

  39. The issue with most modern cars is the sensors/body control modules/ engine control units and the kilometers of wiring in modern vehicles.

    Then you introduce small capacity turbo charged engines that produce high amounts of heat.

    Heat + electronics + time= issues

    An engine/transmission/driveline in its pure mechanical form is easy to understand and diagnose. But introduce any of the above technicalities and it becomes far harder/expensive.

    Easy to replace a carburetor…hard to replace the entire fuel injection system.

  40. Planned obsolescence is not the issue here: Polymers, plastics, resins, rubber and even leather won't last forever. Metal will rust too. This is true for old and new cars. You can tell yourself that you are caring for your car but it is impossible to stop time. You can rub your dashboard all day long but there are tons of places where tiny plastic parts are getting ready to fail.

    If the argument is that new cars are fitted with tons of gimmicky tech that's going to crap-out, then this is an argument in favor of "simpler" cars (and not older in general)

  41. I have owned 8 cars In 15 years and I am on the side of old school is better for many reasons. Most of witch over all cost of ownership and style!

  42. I see a ton of mid ninety Corollas with bad paint driving all over. they are very reliable and have cheap parts if you don't mind the paint looking like the car was left on the moon.

  43. Gee kids these days have such good video editing skills. Who knew this was filmed in one of their moms basements?

  44. As a man who daily’s a 32 year old Plymouth, I can understand both sides. Yes, my car breaks down more often than a car from 2012, but l also actually care about it

  45. I drive around a '73 beetle and all I've done is replace the rubber on the sunroof. It runs great. My sister bought a prius from 2002 or something for about the same price and it's had consistent issues pretty much since she bought it

  46. That dude is ignoring that factory extended warranties are nothing more than a sales pitch and is already built into the price of the vehicle.

  47. What a question, but you seem to be seeking an ignorant internet comment argument rather than considering the question intelligently.. like more from an engineer's standpoint eh? People who follow AVE get it.. and roll their eyes at this whole interaction. Planned Obsolescence has ALWAYS been a thing in the industrial age (at least for commercial segment vs. toolmakers), but PO has also ramped WAY up in this Orwellian parallel existence.. but cars from the 80's and now, poodles and peacocks what a comparison. Safety standards, competition in what segments of what market? I wish they could make a Subaru Brat again, a new but light tin can that weighs nothing… inconceivable! That ea81 engine though… reliable enough to be used to this day in little single-prop airplanes! (yes tuned up and fitted with some nice little kit). Good job Subaru 40+ years ago… bad job humanity waking up to reality around them.

  48. Recent cars have toi much electronics. The old ones have a little bit of electronics and a lot of mechaniscs( wich you can fix it). The problem woth electronics is that you can’t work personally on them, but the mechanisc, if you know what to do, you can fix it yourself

  49. both of these idiots make me want to throw up. bunch of college sophomores who don't know a thing about auto engineering and reliability. Check out thetruthaboutcars.com for ACTUAL automotive journalism.

  50. what is the point of arguing this if you don't set some real numbers for price, reliability, condition on purchase, brand, estimated miles per year, city or highway driving, climate. I could go on. you two are wasting air if you don't set expectations and check data to test the hypothesis.

  51. I'm wondering if a car with electronics (present day) vs no electronics (pre catalytic converter) is better.

    Im just wondering because I would love to hear both sides.

  52. Aaron, you're flat out wrong. Modern cars have decades more science and development in engineering, material science and manufacturing. The big difference is that if you can wrench, you can keep your old car running forever (at least until parts stop being available). New cars need a trained mechanic with the right diagnostic gear to do anything more complex than an oil change or brake pads replacement (unless you're the Freddy Tavarish type).

  53. Cost to repair does factor in my 1991 miata costs $35 for a full synthetic oil change including filter using mobile 1 oil and filter vs my gfs Audi that costs $90 for a full synthetic oil change so some times she puts it off vs I always do it 1,000 miles early same with tires I can get them for $65 hers are like $112 so I have never had a tire blow out on me but she has

  54. I don't think a new car will ever get to the 1.5milion km my 1986 mercedes w124 has. It has never left me stranded and i daily this thing.

  55. Are new cars more reliable than old cars? That's a more complex question to address than one may think. Truth is, a modern car isn't necessary more reliable.
    – Modern cars are subject to "Planned obsolescence" and "Servicing & repair oversake". Most of the money cars manufacturers made comes from servicing and repairing their cars. That alone would suggest modern cars AREN'T BUILD TO LAST.
    – Each generation of newer car is more complex. The PROs are you can get more features, it's easier to diagnose a problem (Sensors), the fuel economy is better. The CON's are that one can't fix many problem by himself (Unless properly equipped and trained), can't do it on the spot and there can be a lot of fake positives (e.g. Reports of an error due to a faulty sensor or a short circuit) and sudden power cuts (Limp mode due to an 02 despite there is absolutely nothing mechanically wrong with the vehicle)
    – Most modern car owners wrongly think that their cars are so reliable that it needs little to no maintenance and they DON'T FOLLOW the maintenance schedule – which would require them to spend just the same amount of time and money they spend on an older car – actually even more than that.

    Last, but not the least: If one wants a really reliable car, he must simply forget about anything that is stock. Older or newer, there is simple nothing like a reliable stock car. One has to make a research, select a car basing his judgement of known issues and features of the cars, ELIMINATE all the known flaws immediately after the purchase and maintain the car properly.

  56. My 1967 ford P5 20M which objectively isn't that reliable according to that guy.. He started talking about how old cars start to break down and the seals are going to be bad..
    Well.. My door seals lasted 51 years. (they were original from the factory) Just done replacing them. Cost 50 bucks per door. (2 door sedan)
    I guess a 2012 modern cars door seals will last longer? I highly doubt that.

  57. Okay let's throw in some key features:

    -Modern cars use plastic parts in the enginebay. Plastic doesn't like to be heat up and cooled down repeatedly for years.
    Classic cars have only metal parts in the enginebay. Metal doesn't care about heating up and being cooled down. Just look at radiators.. They have plastic bottom and top parts.
    My ford's radiator was completely brass.

    -Older cars have proven their reliability simply by existing. If they were so unreliable, they should have degraded and being crushed by now. If they're still moving and driving and passing mot, then they are reliable. For newer cars, you can't know if you got the "one reliable model" or not cause they haven't had a chance to stand against the time. So you're basically rolling a dice.

    -Older cars have more simple parts. For example, a carburetor is just a lump of metal. It has mechanical moving parts inside it. They work.
    For a modern car with fuel injection, you can't pinpoint and fix a problem down the road. If for some reason the car blinks it's engine light, even if you carried around a OBD tool like a psychopath, you still couldn't fix it down the road. You'd be stranded and in the mercy of a computer. Also fuel related problems have many many things that connect to it. Crank and rocker sensors, lambda sensor, injectors, fuel pressure, fuel pump, computer…. For a classic car, it's only that lump of metal and the mechanical fuel pump. There are literally just two things to check if something's wrong and both are easy to check with a screwdriver.

    -Modern cars are overcomplicated with too many sensors and electronics. The problem isn't that ooh your bluetooth may not work but you'd be able to drive. No. The problem is that all those electronics that control the engine and gearbox are connected to eachother. If one component fails, just one. Then the whole system does't work. The car shuts down and refuses to start.
    Classic cars only have the components needed, nothing more, nothing less.

    -Classic cars have a nice slot that you can install a modern radio into easily with just basic hand tools.
    For modern cars, if their radio was broken, you'd have to pull out the whole dashboard to fix it. And to make matters worse, some cars have the radio also control the car itself. So if it breaks, your car might not work either.

    -Classic cars are cheaper to maintain because of their simplicity and availability of third party parts. This means that third party companies can make better more tougher parts to fix out the problems the cars had from the factory. But for modern cars, they're so new that the third party companies didn't have time to produce replacement tougher parts to fix problems that the modern cars might have in the future.

    -Best of all, For a classic car: YOU KNOW WHAT YOU GET IN ADVANCE. You can simply look up all user reported problems that the car will have. You know the cars history if you search enough.
    but for a modern car, you simply don't know what you get. You might be a guineapig waiting to find a problem that hits you in the most inconvenient time.

    Notes:
    Classic cars do have more economical cars. Some times even more economical than modern counterparts.
    Classic cars are built tough. There is proof that some components are thicker and sturdier than modern counterparts.
    Some classic cars have more power than modern cars because they don't have restrictions to fight polluting.
    Modern cars depreciate their value while classic cars tend to get more and more expensive as they age.

    Everybody can spend their money as they please. If you want a modern car then it's your call. But please don't spew out false information to misguide others.

  58. When your talking about reliability you need to look at it in terms of averages. While there were certainly reliable cars from the 80’s & 90’s there too are reliable cars built today. Also our ability to produce more reliable vehicles have improved just as they have always been. Though just because we can make more reliable cars doesn’t mean we do.

    Some cars have small 1.4L engines with turbo chargers & GDI on them which blow up after 60k miles. While others have 2L NU port injected 4 bangers that will last virtually forever. Though on average cars have become more reliable.

    Also in regards to what the black guy said about a garage find that was hardly driven & well kept. Well we can assume that the proportion of people who take care of their car & who beat the shit out of it have remained similar. Meaning the odds of you finding a car that was taken care of & a car which was beat on are the same. He seems to forget this. Just because it’s old doesn’t mean it was magically taken care of all its life & kept it absolutely perfect condition by a mechanic who would summer drive only & only put 60k miles on in 30 years of ownership with oil changes every 3k miles.

    Cost wise you will get the most bang for your buck buying a car that is 4 – 5 years old. This is based off reliability, cost of car, & cost of maintenance, & total expected price. These are all the averages, & this fact was been promoted by various independent sources. A lot of financial channels talk about this, though also factor in depreciation since that is a major cost. While there are odd cases like a old Buick which is fairly reliable though undervalued, this is not the norm rather it is an rare event in terms of the automotive industries & reliability.

  59. My dream classic car will be 59 Cadillac (any model) but damn, that long tailfin is gorgeous.
    Second dream car 59 Chevy Impala or 64.
    Third car id take it will be 59 Lincoln Continental

  60. Bullshit, old cars are simple, so if it does break, you just take your duct tape and fix it, new cars nobody can fix the danm things! MERICA!

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