Used Car Marketplace | Talking Cars with Consumer Reports #116

Used Car Marketplace | Talking Cars with Consumer Reports #116

We talk about why used cars are
such a huge part of the market, and we give you our picks
in three different price categories, next
on Talking Cars. Hi, everybody, and welcome to
another episode of Talking Cars with Consumer Reports. I’m Jon Lincov. I’m Jake Fisher. And I’m Jennifer Stockburger. And you can see that we
have a whole new set up, that we’ve been listening
to the comments, because we have new
mic stands, we’re looking at different filters. We heard that everyone wants
to see our pretty faces. So here we are, we’re trying
some new things every week and shaking it up a
little bit, and there’s going to be changes over
the next couple of weeks. But, please, we’re
going to roll with it. Let us know in the comments, let
us know what you think of it. And as part of the
change-up, we’re not going to be talking about cars
that are in our fleet today, we’re going to be
talking about used cars. Because used cars– huge part
of the automotive universe. Example, in 2015 17.4
million new cars sold. You know how many used
cars were sold that year? You’re going tell us. Hazard a guess? Hazard a guess? Three times. Oh, you studied. 43 million used cars
were sold that year. 44 million used cars
were sold in 2016. So it’s a huge
part of the world. And I think, like Jen was saying
at one point, a lot of people obviously buy them because
it’s the only option for them. Right? Right. They can’t they can’t even
fathom 25 grand or 30 grand for a new car. They just can’t do it. So I mean, there’s just a weird
opposite thing going on, right? So people are buying
used cars, but everyone’s talking about new cars. And we talk about new
cars all the time, because it’s the shiny
new thing, right? You go to the auto show, there’s
no auto show for used cars. Maybe there should
be, because there’s a whole lot more choices
in the used car market. Exactly. Exactly. Well, it’s all the cars that
people have been leasing, you know? They traded it, they’re done
with the three-year lease, they bring them back, there
would be something new. Lot of cars people trade in. They’re good vehicles,
they’re solid, you know, they
took care of them, and they’re out there
for people to buy. And like Jen was saying, yeah,
the new car right now, $33,000, $35,000 is the average price. That’s a ton of money. Mhm. Mhm. And the choices you
have for used cars have never been greater. So there’s new ways
of getting used cars. I mean, you can
go to Craigslist, you could go on eBay,
Motors you could go– and to the point of leasing. Leasing has really exploded
in the last several years. And what that means
is there’s tons of these cars in the market. It’s not about getting
the used rental car, because you don’t know
how that really went, but you have these certified
pre-owned vehicles that are about 36,000 miles,
they’ve been taken care of, and they actually come with
a manufacturer warranty. Well, especially the certifieds. And they’re not old. They’re not even old. Three years, four years old. That’s right. Right, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And some of them are even
off of a two-year lease, because some people can only
get into a two-year lease to be able to lease something. And the certified ones are, in
particular, really interesting. I mean, for years
we talked about, don’t get any one with
a certified warranty, you know, don’t get
extended warranty, just buy the reliable car. And it’s true. You know, buy that Honda Accord
and don’t get the warranty on it. Because, you know,
9 times out of 10– and our reliability
data shows it– it’s going to be a solid car. And you take that $2,000
for certification and you put it in the bank. Right. You know what, if you’re
taking a risk on something, or if you just want that extra
backing of having the warranty, it– if you know about it upfront,
go ahead and do that. And those are the cars
that the dealers take and they certify, because
they know they’re already in good condition. Well, I mean, I think
it’s really important to separate the two
things about the, kind of, the
traditional used car warranty and the certified
pre-owned vehicle. So I mean, it used to be
you go to a used car lot. It was John’s, you know,
Special Used Cars– The wavy things going
around like that, right? The wavy guy, yeah. And I mean, these cars, you
have no idea what happened. And you’re paying extra
for this “used car warranty” that covers this
but doesn’t cover this, and who knows if that place
is going to be around? But when you’re buying a used
Mercedes Benz or a used Honda that has been leased, and now
you’ve got a factory-backed extended warranty– That’s key. That’s key. It’s kind of a different animal. And if your alternative
is buying a new car, you know, a lot of
people, they don’t want to get a used car
because of risk involved. Right? I mean, they don’t want to
have somebody else’s problems. They don’t want a car
that’s under warranty. They don’t want to have to
put in a new transmission, or whatever these issues are. But these cars, if
you do your homework, you get a car that’s
reliable and the car that’s actually backed– you’re almost getting the
same experience as a used car. As a new car. As a new car. Right, right. Well, and, you know,
just if there’s any other reason for why
we’re talking about it, just think of this. Some numbers for you. The wonky– you know,
little boring, but– All right. It makes a big point. I’m tuning– tune
out, everybody. What are you doing? The average price of
a new car? $35,000. OK? Value up to six months? $31,000. Oh, so it’s immediate, yeah. Value after one year? $28,000. Value after three
years, so that car that just came off
the lease. $17,900. It just lost– Wow. So it’s a huge jump. –50% of its value. In three years. Sounds like a great investment. The average car. Sounds like a great
investment, right. You know, sign me
up for another one. Whereas when you get
a used car, you’re not going through that at all. You’re getting a car
that has lost its value, and it’s a much slower decline. So you might get a nice
three-year-old vehicle that’s lost 50% of its value. After six years, you
know, it’s lost much less. You’re not cutting your
value in half again. And in particular, people
with kids getting into a car. You know, you would like them
to get the newest car possible, of course, right Jen? Yeah, we’ll talk about that
when I get to my picks. So yeah, I bring that in. Don’t give it away yet. Getting there. But it is, it’s the option that
most families have for a car. You know, and that’s where
a huge part of the market is going to be. You know, it’s a student
in high school or someone who’s graduate
college, a lot of debt, possibly, or just
starting out in the world. Right. First job, yeah. You know, that’s key. So that’s why, ideas like
that, reasons like that, are why we’ve kind of
taken a look at this. Because most people
buy by price. Some people buy by style. I want an SUV, and
then they go that way. But you know what? You know your budget,
and you fall into it. So we’ve put out
the question, so, what if your budget was
$10,000, $15,000, or $20,000? What would you buy? And we’re going to
start at $10,000. And we haven’t
shared this yet, so. We haven’t shared this, so it’s
all going to be the same car. We don’t know each
other’s picks yet. It’s all going to be an E30 M3– Don’t peek. –or an Audi RS4, right? Stop. Right? Stop. So anyway, I’m going to throw
it to Jen first, because I want to know, $10,000– so anywhere up to $10,000, your
budget, what would you choose? OK. So I picked– and again, we’re
choosing some from our used car data, cars that are
kind of our good bets, so I picked an ’08,
’09 Hyundai Sonata. OK. So the reason I
picked it is, when you start in that under $10,000
range, as you would expect, it skews way over to
subcompacts, compacts. Stuff that was inexpensive
in the first place. Sonata, get you a little
more room than some of those. I think the used car– I mean, it’s a great
value when it’s new, that keeps going into
the used car market. You touched on– and I’m
going to say it here. We are just starting
to see again– and I’ve said this before, as
a mother of a young driver, it’s the first
time we’re starting to see the standard ESC cars
come in under that $10,000 mark in volume. There was a few. But now you can get a car with
standard Electronic Stability Control for a young
driver under $10,000. And that’s a life-saving
safety feature. Right. I mean, it’s the
modern safety belt. Right. If there’s nothing
else, we’ve said, for a teen driver or a young
driver, you’ve got to get that. The one thing I noticed
on the Hyundai, too, is we publish a range for
those ’08, ’09 Sonatas, it’s getting close to the $5,000
mark at the base of the range. You compare it to an ’07
Accord, a year older, and that’s $7,500. So you’re already bouncing
against the more reliable names. I think you benefit
somewhat from Hyundai’s still reputation, that it still
battles with, in the value. So that was my pick,
Hyundai Sonata. Yeah, and they made a–
they made a good car, and they just– They made a great car. –that, the baggage of
people still thinking, when they came over back in
the late ’80s, early ’90s, and they were putting
out just garbage. Yep. And I still hear it. I don’t know if you
guys still hear it, like, ugh, Hyundai, ugh, Kia. You know? You’ll get get that comment. They do have that
reputation, yeah. They do! They do. And I’m like, no, no,
it’s not the same anymore. So, anyway. That’s right. Jake. What have you got? Yes. Well first of all,
yes, I did cheat. I used Consumer
Reports information. And you know– I mean
look, I mean, our– So our– you know, so we have
a lot of products on that. We have a whole robust roll out,
basically, of used car data. Yeah. I mean, if you’re paying
attention on Consumer Reports Online, even if you’re
not a subscriber, you could go on there and
you could see basically every single year
of the used car. You could see what goes
wrong with the cars, we put a lot of free
information out there too, which is kind of– [INTERPOSING VOICES] –this information. Well, and a lot of what
people think about those cars. What, actually, experiences
they had with reliability. So it’s all there. But, let me preface this,
that this is not my car. This is my advice to a friend. And I say that because
I would probably get something wacky
like, you know, an early ’90s RX7 or something. A classic of some sort. Yeah, exactly. So I mean, nobody really wants
to know what I’m getting, but I mean, if someone came to
me and said, I’ve got $10,000, I want to buy a car. 2010 Mazda 6. I mean, again, it is the car
that’s got stability control, it’s got unbelievable
reliability. You can get them with
a six-speed manual, they’re actually available, and
that’s a great transmission. Really makes the car really fun. But, you know, roomy. It’s a good choice. Yeah. Solid vehicle, solid. I put a couple of
options in each one. Oh, so you’re cheating, too. Overachiever, overachiever! I set up the questions,
you know, I’m hosting. It’s my shiny bald
head that gets to be seen most of the time. So, a. Couple of categories
2010 to ’12 Mazda 3. I chose the ’10 to ’12,
even though there’s other ones that are reliable,
because of crash tests. The side impact crash
test on pre-2010s Mazda 3s was not good. Was not good, yep. So good fuel economy, good
crash test on that one. And then you kind of toss it
up between an ’07 Honda Accord and an ’07, ’09 Ford Fusion. You know, same
class, family sedan. You know, reliable. The Accord is the
final year of the run. And I chose it
specifically for that one, because we often see that
the final year of a car when it’s built– Oh, yeah. It’s one of the best. –is when they worked
out all the problems. You know, and it tends to
have the most equipment. They’re, OK, fine. We’ll throw that in, as well. It used to be an
option on the base one, and it was [? standard ?]
unlimited, now they all get it. So those are three there. Looking at it from a
family perspective, I mean, I’ve got two little
kids, you know. What would I get– what would I recommend to me if
I was standing outside my body? Right. And also, you’re just
recommending all the cars. Yeah, well. Any other ones you want to add? I did have a couple others if
I, you know, undid my edits. I think we’ll roll through. But I have a couple more
in the next group, so. So, Jen, what if you were
able to bump the budget up? OK, so now you’re looking
at $15,000 as your ceiling. OK. So my take here is that used
cars also get you the car that you really always wanted
new, but could never afford. That reach car. So I put in there an
Infiniti M. ’07, ’08 M. So you think of a brand
new Q 70, $50,000. Right? That’s not happening. But as the M– which we
liked from even early, we loved that car, the
balance, you know– that it gives you the
chance to get that car you always wanted,
couldn’t afford. And in my case I need
the all-wheel drive, so that was a cool thing
for that one as well. Right, that was available. So rear-wheel drive
or all-wheel drive. So OK. Jake, what about– I like Jen’s pick. Oh, you did! No, and just a second, because– Oh, you guys didn’t collaborate. No, no, that wasn’t my pick. No, I’m just saying I think
hers was better than mine. And for anybody who’s
familiar with that car, that is the old Infiniti. I mean, that
Infiniti was awesome. I mean, they were
just head-to-head with BMW, Mercedes Benz. The interior quality just
blows away current Infinities. I mean, it’s just a
really, really nice car. I think the [INAUDIBLE]
system, in today’s Infinitis is the same as back then, though. I think it was better back then. I think it was better
back then, yeah. It worked more. It wasn’t overly complicated. It was more reliable. Right. Yeah, it was good. Anyway, all right. No, my choice wasn’t the M.
I would get a 2014 Mazda 3. Again, mind meld. I mean, the ’14 Mazda 3, this
is basically the same car that you’d buy a new car. I mean, it’s pretty
much the same vehicle. It’s got the Skyactiv engine,
which is super fuel-efficient. The car’s been really reliable. You could get a hatchback
version with a stick shift, that again it is just– That stick shift, again. –such a blast to drive. And reliable, fuel-efficient. And again, nobody even knows
that you have a used car. Yeah. The current body style– It is. Yep, like you said. Good choice. Not as good as yours. As your four. It’s actually five,
if you want to– No, he ran out of room on this. I didn’t want to
have to tab over. So 2007 to ’10 Acura
TSX, because that was one of the last cars
that Acura had its mojo. It’s a little small. You can get a wagon, so
that’s the journalists’ love, you know, you get a wagon, OK. There you go. It was the European
Honda Accord. That’s right. So you have this sporty car,
it has luxury-ish features, you know, you can get
some luxury with it. Reliable, again, super
reliable, but fun to drive. If you wanted some
luxury at a bargain base, kind of like your Infiniti
M, Hyundai Genesis from 2009. You know, again, even the
new ones fly under the radar. No one would really– I mean, the grills are
a little different, but you wouldn’t really
know the difference. A lot of features for the money. And then also the family thing,
an ’09 Odyssey or a Sienna. And it’s a toss-up. Well, that’s a lot of vehicle
for the money right there. It’s a lof of vehicle
for the money, and you get 19 miles per gallon,
and you can get all-wheel drive with this Toyota Sienna. Right. And we’re talking about
Nissan Versa prices. Oh, yeah, exactly. I mean, you know, $15,000, you’d
be happy to get a Honda Fit. Right. That would be tough. That would be tough
right there, yeah. –to get that. So you’re getting a vehicle for
seven, possibly eight people, depending on how it’s set up. You’re getting a reliable car. And for the Northeast–
like you said, people who need it for snow,
you can get all-wheel drive. So top of the budget. $20,000. We’re still not at new
car prices anywhere, you know, for average. But $20,000 is a lot of
money to spend on a new car– on a used car, excuse me. What would you like? OK, you touched on
this a little bit, because the other thing
that used lets you get is the bigger car. So I always love, and you’ll
laugh and you’ll laugh, but I like that Ford Flex. We talked about wagons. You and the Flex again. I love the Flex! And I do. And again, big
kids, so much room. Big appetites. And I am a wagon– I just like wagons. It’s kind of this
retro love that I have, and so you can
fit seven adults– I mean, we still say when
there’s minivans and three-row stuff here, we’re
fighting over in. So if you could get that
for that under $20,000, the reliability is good. And again, I looked at
Sienna, too, that same idea. It’s a year later when
you get up to the 20. One thing I did notice, though. So in our used car
content now, you can actually look and see if
there’s inventory in your area. One of the cool things is,
can I find one near me? Right. It’s all good to have this list,
but if there’s nothing around, you have no idea where to start. Right, so you click
this link, and guess what I found on the Ford Flex? None available, because
they’re so popular. None available because
they’re so popular. Because it’s just
you that likes them. Because you have
them all in your– So there is that risk
there, so I would have to expand my search area. But yeah. But that’s where it’s
worth it with a used car. Right, you can do that. You get– it doesn’t
matter the dealer where you buy it at that point. I’ve had two friends
who have literally flown across the country,
picked up a used car– in climates that might
be even a little better than the Northeast, with
no salt and all that– and driven the car back. Two. So you know, that’s
the other thing, is it’s not limited
to the Northeast. I have to delete my choice. Uh-oh, did you have
the Ford Flex in there? I did. You did. Oh, I knew it. I’m not the only one. Flex buddies. I’m not the only one. Exactly. Jake? I did not have the Ford Flex. Well, that’s good,
because the conversation would get pretty boring. Yes. So I, my choice– So $20,000. $20,000 is your ceiling. It’s kind of like where
you’d buy, like, a Corolla. About $20,000 these days. Yeah, you’re not
even getting a– A Dodge Dart is like,
probably $21,000. You know– It was $28,000, and then
they put a lot of money in. Was, was. OK. Now they’re giving them away. So it’s not a lot of
money for a new car. But my car would– let’s see. Standard stability
control, goes 0 to 60 in 5.6 seconds, 328
horsepower, roomy, comfortable, lots of room for four people. 2011, an Infiniti G 37. You were just talking about
this, outside of this table. Yeah. It’s just– it’s
an incredible car. I mean, it’s back
when– you know, again, going back to
Infiniti back when– make the Infiniti
great again, right? But I mean, Infiniti, just– I mean, it was right up there,
3 Series, A4, just head-to-head. But extremely reliable. The reliability we have on those
vehicles, 2011, just stellar reliability. But you get the performance
and the driving fun and all that good stuff. Based on our tests, I
recommended that to my uncle. He has it, he bought a G37X. Loves it, drives it to
Florida, drives it back. Drives it around the country,
because they don’t fly. So they spend a
ton of hours in it. He had a problem with one,
rolled into a random dealer in Georgia. They took care of him, gave
him a loaner car for a while. Oh, that’s the other thing. Got to take it– loves it. He keeps talking
about it, every time. Has Tesla lust, but loves his G.
And is kind of at the point of, like, he’s got
200,000 miles on it and he doesn’t know what to do. Right. Where do you? Where do you go? What do you think of
the new ones, and such. OK, I’ll take off my list. Oh, my goodness. Oh, see? More mind meld. So now I have a smaller list. Now I’m with you guys. 2011 Cadillac CTS. Little out there, edgy
styling, but get that luxury, reliability. It’s above average
reliability, performance. You know, it’s– it’s
a little bit out there, and it gives you the luxury,
but it’s something that you don’t see every day now. It stands out, it’s
a little distinct. It was one of the last
of that generation of really good Cadillac. The new CTS is a great car. This gives you some fun, gives
you a little bit of room. It’s got a little bit of
cheesiness in the interior, I will say that, but
overall that’s a solid one. And family car, I have to
give a little bit of love to the Acura MDX
that’s in my garage. My wife has an ’11, the
2010 was a good car. Sporty ride, good handling. Tons of buttons. So if you like
buttons in your car, I think there’s, like, 47
buttons all over the dash. And it has a knob, as well. You know, central controller. So you get both of those. Strong engines. So that’s my choice. I have a friend who has one, her
teenagers are now driving it. It just keeps going
and going and going. Yeah, it does. I mean, we don’t drive it a
lot, so we have low miles on it, but it’s paid off. And it’s one of
those where, like, what will we get for this? And my wife sits in all
the cars that I bring home. She’s like, there’s
really nothing I’m seeing that’s
going on with that. Well, I mean, look. We have older cars. I mean, again, it’s
a what would you get? It’s like, look at
what we do have. And again, you know, my wife’s
driving a 2006 Toyota Prius. 125,000 miles, it’s
got stability control, it’s got Bluetooth, it’s
got a back-up camera, it’s had no problems. Nothing. Right. And we had the Prius we brought
in with 200,000 miles on it, and the performance
drop was insignificant. Right, still getting
40 miles per gallon. Exactly. Exactly. So with that, we do have
a couple of questions that people sent in
to us, and one of them is right for you, Jen. In fact, I think you
might even know who– Uh-oh. About a Fusion? I love the 2015 GMC Camry– Canyon, excuse me, but
that mid-size pickup truck, and you guys seem to
hate pickup because they don’t drive like cars. They’re not supposed to
either, they’re trucks, and I– you guys don’t understand
why people like them. And I think someone’s
a little confused– Is that my husband? I think that’s my husband. It sounds like Jack. Except it’s the Canyon
and not what he drives. No. So that is my husband. For you guys–
that is my husband. He drives a 2012
Nissan Frontier, and he loves his truck. Now, I will tell you, he
loads the bed maybe 10 days a year, really. So the other 355
days, he’s using it to drive back
and forth to work. We’re pretty rural,
we have horses, we need the bed sometimes. And he’s an outdoorsman,
he really likes it. But that’s, I think, why
we rate them the way we do. We don’t expect anybody to think
they’re going to be like cars, but we certainly want
to make that comparison. Because for most people,
they’re using them more as just transportation
than they are as trucks. If that makes any sense. Yeah, and well, first
of all, it’s relative– Him included. –ride, relative handling. No one thinks that
your husband’s truck is going to ride and handle
like this Mazda CX5 over here, you know, or a Tesla, or
even a Toyota Corolla. I mean, they’re all
different categories. But, you know– And the
question came, really, from talking about
the Ridgeline. When we do tests, all the
pickup trucks in the category, something is going to
stand out in some place, and ride is one of the big ones. Right, Jake? Well, absolutely. And I think what’s really
important here is– I always kind of
crack up when people are like, you guys don’t like
this car, you guys don’t like– It’s not that we don’t
like it, we’re just telling people what it does. And I think it’s an
important distinction. So it doesn’t ride well, OK? It doesn’t steer well. And therefore in the ratings,
it’s not going to do well. It doesn’t mean
we don’t like it. It’s not easy to get into
a Corvette or 9/11, OK? It doesn’t mean we
don’t like them. We went on road bikes
the other day, right? They don’t ride very well. They don’t. They’re not very comfortable. They’re not. We love them! They don’t protect you
from the rain, either. We love them. So it’s a different thing. Yeah. Within the category, if you’re
going to drive it every day and you ask, like
the person did, oh, you know, I need
a truck for my dad and he drives it every
day, and once in a while he goes to the dump. Well, a Ridgeline’s going
to be a heck of a lot better, for a new
car, than a Takoma. Well, you touched on, too–
you’ve got within the category, but you also have within the
universe of all the cars. And that’s where the trucks
appear and we don’t like them. Is in the universe. But within trucks, we
recognize what they do well and what they don’t do well. Exactly, exactly. Other question. We have, so you say that
all-wheel drive doesn’t help you when it comes to cornering. Is that still true in
all-wheel drive vehicles that include some form of
asymmetric torque vectoring system, such as Acura’s
Super-Handling All-Wheel Drive System, for example,
or is that something the CR has specifically
tested for? I’m going to throw the
handling question– We’ll let the
handling guy do that. –to Mr. Drift Car. Yeah. Yeah, it’s a bit of a gimmick. It really is. I mean, look, we take all
the cars around the track. We take them and we push
them at their limits. Now, first of all,
with that system, basically you have to disable
stability control and all these things. And there’s certain situations
where you hit the gas and it’ll do some fancy
stuff, but it really doesn’t make a huge amount
of difference at the limit. And it’s certainly
not anything you’re going to see in normal driving
if you’re not on a racetrack. And even if you
are, there are cars that are normal all-wheel
drive that are still going to be handling better. I mean, you know what? All-wheel drive, like, give
me an Audi A4 on the track before one of those. The fancy– Versus MDX the SH
all-wheel drive? Yes, yes. A4 versus MDX, yeah. And that’s the thing. Everyday driving, 70
miles out on the highway, it’s not torque vectoring
and loading the outside wheel slightly to make you hit that
huge bend eight hundredths of a tenth of a second later. Yeah, you’re quicker. It’s the tires that it’s
going to make the difference around that corner. It’s going to be about the grip,
it’s going to be about the– It may activate the
wheel a little quicker, and that may in some
sort of testing, say, OK well, for this group– But you’re not
going to notice it. You’re not going to feel that. An in fact, one
of the big things that I want to come
to with Mazda, they have a system where it
changes the throttle when you turn in to
make the car have less– and they then said, you’re
never going to feel it. You are never, ever
going to feel it. You might see a little less head
bob in a video, but that’s it. Right. There’s these incremental
things that they do and, you know, and that’s fine. But no, it’s not making a big
difference in the driving. But Jake touched on the
tires as, just, the key. Well, it’s the influence. So you have these
little nuanced things that you’re saying
you’re not going to feel, then you have tire grip. That’s the big nut, if you
have it or you don’t have it. Right. And the only place
the nuanced thing is– maybe a tweak in
an emergency situation, but we should capture that. But not in your everyday
driving, to your point. Right, right. But with that, we’re going
to wrap up this episode. As always, check
out the show notes below for more
information on the cars that we talked about
in this episode. Thanks for watching, and
we’ll see you next time.

About the Author: Michael Flood


  1. Speakers are much better, we can see with the new camera angle the speakers much better, thank you! About used cars – they are a good deal and you can save a lot of money. However, if you keep your cars over a decade (like I do) and for about 200,000 miles, in the end it does not make nearly as much difference compared to buying a car every few years. If you do that, buy a used car every few years – then you will save a substantial amount of money. Hyundai is a good brand these days. Toyota/Lexus are still good brands as a rule. Honda/Acura/GM are hit and miss depending on what you are getting. Chrysler/FCA are just not good long term for the most part. Love Jake's comment about Acrua's AWD system, that it is a gimmick. That was my perception while others on YouTube told me I am wrong. At least CR agrees with me.

  2. I think the image you used for the '07 Accord was wrong, should it have been the 7th generation Accord instead? I own an '07 Accord and was surprised to see a different image than the car I own… but thanks for giving my car a shoutout! Its been going for 205,000 miles strong and still no problems.

  3. Good episode. I buy 10 yo low mileage cars exclusively, just because no way I'm paying 40 grand for a car.

  4. a three year old gm/ford/chrysler is NOT a good purchase…it's the beginning of a miserable ownership experience!

  5. My wife and I have never bought a new car – not that we couldn't, but that the savings is too big to ignore. Plus, we only put about 11k miles a year on our heaviest use car, so we wouldn't use up a new car before it aged out.
    I just wanted to add that in some segments, finding a used car that is not Certified Pre Owned can be tough. We faced that in 2014 when we bought a 2011 Odyssey – nearly every used Odyssey at a dealer was CPO. And I even asked if they could "un-CPO" the one we wanted, but they weren't interested. It worked out OK for us in the end, but I still wasn't thrilled that the CPO decision is made by the dealer, not the buyer, so it becomes a "take it or leave it" situation where the only other option is finding a private seller.

  6. Much better microphone setup. It was strange not seeing mouths. Nice camera placement too. Also, much better seeing the cool table top and magazines instead of so much lower body. Good job.'

  7. This facing the camera thing was interesting, but I think you should try going the other way with it, think Mystery Car Theater 3000.

  8. Format is No good for me. I like the previous format where you seat on a stool and talk about cars casually. We (the audience) know that there's a microphone and you guys don't have to show it like this. This new concept is a Big NO NO!

  9. I can afford just about any car I'd want paid with cash, however cars are a depreciating asset, so if you understand how to save money, used cars make sense.

  10. The guy on the left is an idiot. Acuras SH-AWD is so awesome, he does not have the slightest pre-requisite knowledge necessary to judge it.

    Torque vectoring applies brakes on the inner wheels and decreases the chance of the vehicle flipping around a corner. It is a feature bundled into "SH-AWD" but it has nothing to do with classical AWD.

  11. You guys did a video, maybe a year or two ago, that compared how the AWD systems of the Forester, CRV, and Rav4 did in the snow. In that video, it seemed like the Subaru handled better because it's AWD system was set up better tuned or something. Here, and in numerous other videos, you say AWD doesn't help in cornnering.  Can you explain what seems like an inconsistency? Does AWD never help or are their exceptions like with the forester?

  12. I like the fact that you guys mentioned the 2007 Honda Accord as a great pick for a used car because I also own a 2007 Accord(SE 4 cylinder to be exact) and it has been a great car for me thus far. I bought mine's used in 2012 as a CPO car at a Southern California Honda dealership with only 28K miles on it. Now it has 98K miles on it and it still runs great. The only work I had done on the Accord was replace the airbag inflators for the drive and passenger side due to the Takata Recall and the typical wear and tear items(oil and fluid changes, brake pads, tires, etc). Good choices in cars and good video CR!

  13. I think it would be interesting to figure in maintenance costs as well for the purchase of a used car. How much does it cost for an oil change, an interval maintenance, tires, etc.

  14. I love my 08 Infiniti G35. It is such a great car. When I blast down country roads I actually can't help but smile.

  15. I have 08 Mazda 6i; it is not the one they recommend but it is still a hidden gem; 167K currently; although I maintain it on my own, it will last to 220k – 250k easily I could tell…

  16. I like the new format. The quality is much better. I hope you keep mixing up the topics.

    If AWD does not help with cornering but instead tires, does AWD not better provide grip exiting corners? It might do absolutely nothing for corner entry and very little before applying the gas again but wouldn't it maximize corner exit? Now the additional weight might be a limiting factor.

  17. I'm in the market for a $10k used car but I'm sticking with Honda. Reliable and inexpensive to maintain . Lovin the new format!

  18. Much better guys but the gigantic mics are still a distraction. With today's technology I can't believe you can't find lapel mics that have the same quality as the gigantic mics. Every TV show has nearly invisible sound equipment. The close ups on the 10 and 2 positions are excellent but not so good on 12 position. Thank you for listening to your fans.

  19. Regarding the Ford Flex- has Ford worked out issues with MyTouch yet, or is it still crap? I'm looking at a Murano, Venza, RDX V6 and maybe an Edge for my wife…. I like the Edge, on paper at least, but I have heard nothing but vitriol about MyTouch.

  20. It's funny you should mention the Acura TSX, I'm currently looking at the 2012-14 TSX sport wagon and the 2016 Golf sportwagen models. They're both in the 15-20k range and have similar cargo space. Which would​ you suggest? Certified VW with warranty or a more comfortable Acura?

  21. 10k, 15k @ 20k$ cars are fine. But many people of lower income or fixed retirement incomes (seniors ) can't even afford that. What about decent cars at say $5k to $6k, running from about 2004 to 2007 (size won't matter, just build quality reliability)?

    What quality car jewels would you recommend in the $5k range? For example, found a '07 Sonata at $6K, but your review said '08 and up, although the '07 has the same body style. It would replace my excellently maintained 297,000 miles '99 Solara V6 5-speed (extremely rare). Folks like me need a cash car that won't croak when it leaves the lot.

    Please add that $5K category. No one expects the bells and whistles at that level. But a person can always add an after market entertainment system, for bluetooth safety and some SUV's back then had ESC.

  22. Oh one more thing, 20K steps into the category of a new car, with bumper to bumper warranty protection. I know you said the average was in the 30K+ range. But basic Sonatas and Honda Civics (with standard ESC) can be had for about $21K. I know because I bought a 2016 Civic (which had quality build issues you've mentioned before and replaced it less than 3 months later with a 2016 Sonata (which has been great). Each car came out just above $21K before taxes. But I'd like to find a good used 5-speed at about $5k, to replace a 99 Solara 5-speed (my weekend fun car) that was totaled by another driver.


  24. Please get rid of those mics. "Dorky" does not even begin to describe it. On top of that, there is really no improvement over regular lapel mics.

  25. Hey, do not put down rental cars for used car purchase. Rental cars sold directly to the public from the rental fleet (via rental company websites) are usually fine (what rental company is going to take a liability risk that could have been avoided), no more than two years on them with the balance of the bumper to bumper warranty.

    Plus some rental companies will let you test drive the car first for up to 3 days for a small rental fee and you are free to take it to a qualified mechanic, before completing the purchase.

    Most used cars dealers won't let you do that! Huh!!

    Once working for a rental fleet, I've never witnessed a crashed car being sold directly to the public. However, some cars are turned back to the manufacturer after they hit x miles, others because of agreements are sold at the wholesales auction so that manufacturer's dealers can buy them and sell them on their lots. Crashed vehicles can be sent to salvage.

    I'm not pushing this choice, but don't discount it by saying "It's not about getting a used rental car because you don't know how that went".

  26. I can't imagine why none of them would recommend a Camry or a Corolla considering that they are among the most reliable cars on rhe road.  I have owned my 2000 Camry for 18 years and have just shy of 400k miles on it. In Miami you see more older Camrys, Accords, and Corollas than almost anything else. My mechanic  tells me that he has several customers with over 500k+ miles on them still going strong.  I recently had my tires rotated at Sears, the tech asked me if I wanted to sell him my Camry.  Even though he offered me a lil over 3k I told him that I wasn't interested in selling her. To break the awkward silence I told him that he wouldn't want to buy a car with that many miles on it anyway. He pointed to his 98 Lexus with 606k miles on it and said "Solo un Toyota" (Only a Toyota). NOBODY is ever gonna say "Solo un Hyundai or Solo un Ford Fusion!:

  27. I like the old setup better, without the changing camera angles. Also, your voice quality was fine before, you don't need the mics.
    The best used cars (i.e. the ones you recommend) do not drop by half over 3 years, more like 5. Even a reliable car that's 10 years old will start having maintenance issue. Not sure why you guys are looking at '07s for 15k.

  28. Great show! Jen knocked it out of the park. All of her picks were outstanding! And the Mazda picks & Infiniti G35 was good by the other co-host.

  29. I really miss the 2000's Infiniti/Nissan. Who could have predicted that Nissan and Infiniti would have such soulless poor quality vehicles currently. Love the M pick

  30. careful with the fit recommendations. that car didn't get esc until very late in the game. basically at the current bodystyle redesign. I owned one, I loved it, but it's compact and tall, and it will wiggle its hips given the aggressive sway bar setup and torsion beam rear axle (2nd Gen cars).

  31. Jon Linkov … You want comments? How about answering the literal HUNDREDS of comments from viewers about Tom's mysterious disappearance. CR, I thought, was supposed to be about transparency, disclosure, and all the other good things that a consumer-oriented organization professes to be about. I'm close to canceling my subscription if you people don't address THOSE fundamental questions!

  32. Once you guys stop hawking Japanese cars your credibility will get much better.
    And notice how aggressive Honda and Toyota have become with technology roll out. They know they are sitting on a bubble. No fault of theirs but the radiation levels in their cars, even those 'assembled ' in USA are astronomical.

  33. I strongly strongly disagree with CR recommending buying 2 and 3 year old off lease cars. as someone who is married to a person that only Lisa his cars for No More Than 3 years I can't tell you how many times he's driven these cars with the check engine and oil lights on not caring about potential damage since he doesn't plan on keeping the cars. his last 3 Series BMW had so many weird electrical issues that were the fault of the car that when the oil light came on or the service engine light came on he just figured he would wait until he had a batch of issues for the dealer to solve at once. we received a call from a man who was considering purchasing the car. I told him that I did not recommend that he buy the car because of the problems both the fault of the car and of the husband. The man immediately got defensive and told me that it was a certified pre-owned car from BMW so it couldn't have been too bad. it's surprising that the same dealership that told us that the oil in the engine looked like and had the consistency of thick tar would then go and certify something like that. literally in 36 K miles the oil has been changed maybe 4 times and as someone who worked at a Infiniti dealership when I was in high school I can tell you that was pretty normal.. nobody puts good gas or takes care of their rental car because it's not really theirs and a leased car is just a long-term rental car period I also would never bye a car from a repossession auction because if the person couldn't afford to pay their car note what makes you think they changed their oil? LOL

  34. It's worthwhile to discuss relative simplicity (or complexity) within a given model line. We have an '06 Volvo V70 wagon, an arguably "below average reliability" and "expensive repairs" vehicle based on CR data. However, ours is a simpler version than most with far fewer gadgets. It is a 5spd manual with no turbo, no navigation system, simple FWD, etc.. The vehicle has 120k miles and is incredibly reliable with virtually no mechanical issues ever (aside from standard upkeep). This contradicts the CR data on "below average" Volvos like ours which covers the more feature rich (and admittedly more common versions) of the same chassis. Used car shoppers might well (within reason) consider relative complexity before purchase, and may find surprising treasures can be found beyond the protective recommendations of CR.

  35. A little something, when using statistics numbers or years pricing compare you could use 10 second graphics during the conversation keeps on. Helps keep focus.

  36. Jake is right! For under 20k: certified Infiniti G37. Perfect blend of looks, performance, size and reliability. Epic car. I have a used '09 that I bought for $10,000 with 146k in 2015. Some people don't want that much miles. You can find certified G37s with less then 50k miles for around $20,000. Unbeatable value. Mine hasn't let me down at all and now has 166k.

  37. The secret to real estate is location, location, location. The secret to used cars is condition, condition, condition. Even reliable cars can be abused and some average cars can be pristine.

  38. @ConsumerReports I've been watching Talking Cars for a few years, and i just absolutely love it. This new format is great! Well done, and keep it up. I really look forward to this every week.

  39. 4:15 Giving hard numbers for depreciation of new cars, but then only nebulous assurances of much lower depreciation on used vehicles. Why not give us some hard numbers? Mention brands and models that depreciate less. Give numbers. This would be of value in a show with this theme.

  40. I currently own an 07 accord and am looking at used mini vans. I like awd so I was looking at the Toyota Sienna. With baby number 2 on the way we are trying to spend cash wisely. In my area it's hard to spend 28,000 on a used sienna when I could just get a Chrysler town and country with snow tires for half the cost( really there are a ton of them with low mileage and are half the cost). What's your opinion; is the sienna worth twice as much money? And is a mini van with snow tires just as good in western pa as awd?

  41. Liked the episode nice flow of content. It's an improvement to see a person mouth when speaking even if there not super pretty lol.

  42. I think every person should buy a new car once in their life, 8 months ago I bought 2016 F150 and I love it

  43. I've owned 3 BMW 3 series, all purchased used. Everything you've said about value for money is true. I"m leasing now but will be back to used cars with my next purchase.

  44. considering a used prius. looking mostly for mpg and reliability…is there a particular year and model that's a particularly good bang for your buck? how long do the batteries last and how much to replace them? if i get an extended warranty, is the battery covered?

  45. Hey Consumer Reports, I'm thinking about buying a 2014 Audi SQ5 and keeping it for about 15 years. I tend to keep my vehicles for a long time and occasionally perform maintenance myself. However, I have never purchased a performance oriented vehicle and am wondering about the reliability and overall costs when keeping a vehicle for such a long period of time. Is this a smart choice?

  46. Great episode. As you pointed out the used market is a great place for some value and maybe even a step up to a "dream car". Could you give some input on the 25-30k used market? I am, personally, looking for an everyday driver that gets decent gas mileage, is an enjoyable drive, AWD, and has comfortable room for 4. Any suggestions?

  47. GMC Canyon, I love mine. Though you need to get the redesigned one, its so comfortable. Mine with a crew cab and 6.2ft bed is just perfect.


  49. CR loves recommending old cars, not sure I'd want a 10 year old Accord or Infiniti
    $10K 2014 Chevrolet Cruze also Hyundai Elantra
    $15K 2014 Toyota Camry SE or Hyundai Sonata, Kia Optima, Kia Soul
    $20K 2016 Chevrolet Malibu, 2016 Ford Focus (even titanium models) 2017 Sonata, 2017 santa Fe Sport, 2016 Forester,
    Plus various others
    #1 $20K pick is new 2017 Nissan Frontier S 2WD

  50. Really? For $10000, you should be able to get a much better car. I got a 2007 rabbit with ECS in 2012 for $9800…. sold it last year $5500….ESC is not that hard to get….Oh, and it's low mileage, below 30000 when I got it, a little above 50000 when I sold it.

  51. Used car prices have been ridiculous since the crash of 2008. Originally they said it was because inventories were low due to people hanging onto there cars longer. I think it's due to the emergence of lease agreements and 72 – 84 month financing. People aren't going to sell there cars for less than they owe on the loan.

  52. Not all that keen on Mazda's long term reliability. We are about to retire a 2007 CX7 due to major engine problems that would cost more to repair than the car is worth. I've also spoken to several users online who are having problems with low beam headlights that melt or crack their housings due to moisture seal leaks. Replacement parts are ridiculously expensive making them for all intents and purposes disposable vehicles. Many older Mazda 3s are starting to show significant body rust around the fender wells. These are the kind of things that tend to stick in the minds of consumers for years. The new breed may be perfectly fine and reliable but people always remember their last experience.

  53. Show me where I can find a 3 year old originally $35,000 car for $17,000. Nobody sells them that cheap. Seems to be closer to $1,000 off for every 10,000 miles.

  54. 21:30 hits it head on. I drive a Prius C and CR rightfully bashed at its busy ride but users that know that fact who still choose to drive it to this day years later while enjoying the safety features, infotainment system, fuel economy, and reliability. I would love to buy a used Honda Insight in the future but have to wait to see if the new drive train pans out well.

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